In the little I know about the Catholic religion, compared to what I believe about God, I find it impersonal, and a faith that goes against the word of God.

A preist is needed to forgive your sins.

A preist is needed to communicate to God for you.

You have to do rituals.

You worship the mother of Christ, not the Christ.

You are not allowed to choose the size of your family.

Over the past couple of decades, we have learned some of the moral breakdown within the church.

In debating about God, as Jesus would say, " It's hard to kick against the pricks". He was specking to Paul, when Paul was so busy persecuting those who believed in the Lord. Those who had personal experiences with his spirit.

If you are Catholic, forgive me if this offends you. But this is a debate, so all guards need to be down and the Word spoken in truth.

God is as real as the spirit that lives in you is real. We all should be having a personal relationship with him. We don't need a mortal man standing between God and us.

Hi Linda,

Here's a "funny" story for you. When my Dad came back from the Pacific at the end of WWII, he wanted to marry my Mom, who was Protestant. The Catholic Church forbid it! They even threatened him with excommunication if he went through with the marriage, believe it or not. The poor Priest who was sent to deliver this news to him, was bodily thrown out of the house.....by my Grandmother!

I understand your views on being Catholic, but is this stuff really important when we are all Christians?

The rituals, intercessions, rules and regulations of the Church, whether Catholic or Protestant are thing of men, not God, so why give them any credence at all? As for worshiping Mary, there are different views, but again, as long as we are all believers in Him and His Grace, what does it really matter? These "technicalities" will be sorted out by God not men, so they really aren't important now anyway.

As believers I think now more then ever we need to focus on being like minded rather then on the differences between us since these differences only cause us to lose focus on God. As we both know, that's Satan's priority.

If someone wants to worship Mary as the Mother of Christ, that's fine with me as long as Christ is their only God. JMHO.

Cheers

George, I love you. I love your beautiful spirit. Somehow, you got past the hype. But two many have not.

How can you ask, "What does it matter?" It matters that people are being fooled into thinking that God is not at their reach. It matters that people are being lead just like those in Mose time.

Who did God choose for His chosen people. Jacob, who lived his life as he chose, used his head to grab ahold and get ahead, but was honest and did the work to get there. Jacob, who felt God's presents, on his own, in his own time, A personal relationship between them. It was those Israelites who couldn't get it. Couldn't be independent. Just kept seeking for a leader. We don't need a leader. We have God at our side any time we need leadership. All we have to do is ask. Go straight to the source.

Good for your grandmother! She saw through the stupid rules. Who the heck is some mortal priest to tell someone what they can and cannot do?

I got to tell ya, I'm a little surprised in you, Hell, I'm a lot surprised in you. You say who cares about all these things that people hold dear and as long as we are Christians, who cares.

What kind of crap is that? My potty mouth is coming out, so I will shut up for your next reply. Dang George!

George, I know that Bo is a work in progress, but I got to tell ya, he is the kind of guy that God would call the apple of His eye. The reason is, Bo doesn't take anything verbatim. He questions everything. Bo is a man after God's own heart. He was brain washed through the Catholic church.

All that you said, is what is wrong with people in the world. To many rules, to many religions, people saying, " I'll keep my beliefs, but believe in God. How can you hold on to your beliefs and know God? Become independent. Become your own man. Let go of everything that a religion has ever put in your head and just listen to what God tells you.

I'm going to bed and hope to share with you tomorrow. Love you, Linda

Hi Linda,

I knew you would object to my post. I did not mean it as it "sounded" however.

My point was the things you pointed out as being contrary to faith in the Catholic tradition are no less different then things that can be pointed out in all Christian sects. Each has their own rules. There would be no divisions of Christian faith otherwise.

These are things of men however, and therefore inconsequential to core Christianity. The point is we should all be like minded in our faith in Christ, and far less legalistic in church doctrines. Bottom line. Those who are true believers in Christ and His teaching are what is important, not the church doctrines they may or may not also subscribe to.

The Catholic believer is no less your brother or sister in the Spirit then anyone else, so focus on what we have in common, not what we dispute with each other, especially when it is from man. None of us are going to be perfect in His Law, so it serves no purpose to point out the short comings of others when we all have them. This is after all why Christ came in the first place. JMHO.

As for the guy you mentioned:), yes, he's a piece of work alright. Yeah, a work in progress too! LOL.

Cheers My Lady!

All the talk about the Catholic church made me remeber a joke I heard years and years ago. If you are Catholic, please don't be offended...I have many jokes about many religions, this one is just very humourous.







A new priest was so nervous at his first Mass that he could hardly speak. After Mass he asked the monsignor how he had done.

The Monsignor replied, "When I am worried about getting nervous on the pulpit, I put a glass of vodka next to the water glass."

So the next Sunday, he took the monsignor's advice. At the beginning of the sermon, he got nervous and took a drink.
He proceeded to talk up a storm.

Upon his return to his office after Mass, he found the following note on the door:

A Few Tips.
* Sip the vodka, don't gulp it.
* There are 10 commandments, not 12.
* There are 12 disciples, not 10.
* Jesus was consecrated, not constipated.
* Jacob wagered his donkey; he did not bet his ass.
* We do not refer to Jesus Christ as the late JC.
* The Father, Son and the Holy Ghost are not referred to as Daddy, Junior and the spook.
* David slew Goliath; he did not kick the crap out of him.
* When David was hit by a rock and knocked off his donkey, don't say he was stoned off his ass.
* We do not refer to the cross as the "Big T."
* When Jesus broke the bread at the Last Supper he said, "Take this and eat it for it is my body." He did not say, "Eat me."
* The Virgin Mary is not called "Mary with the Cherry."
* The recommended grace before a meal is not, "Rub-A-Dub-Dub, Thanks for the grub, yeah God."
* Next Sunday, there will be a taffy pulling contest at St. Peter's, not a Peter pulling contest at St. Taffy's.



Again, please see the humour in it.

John

The Vatican has a great deal to answer for and whilst I respect Christians and their point of view, I have absolutely nothing but contempt for the Pope and the entire Holy See.

Lets start with the pope himself. Once known as God's Rottweiller, the College of Cardinals chose as its leader, a man that with forethought and supposedly the ear of God, assisted in the covering up of child sex abuse.

In 2001 when he was a cardinal, he was the author of a secret edict that placed the interests of the church ahead of justice and healing for victims of abuse perpetrated by Catholic priests. There is absolutely nothing Christian about this. It is shameful and instead of promoting the man to head of a christian organization, he should be in jail.

Moving right along, the Catholic church and its stance on birth control is responsible for promoting not only poverty but the unchecked spread of HIV. Now that the world is screaming about it, good ol Benedict has edged away from his stance slightly by saying that the use of condoms "could" be shown to demonstrate responsibility. An institution with the power to save lives and ensure the health and well being of its own flock, refuses to do so. Yes, its doctrine and can not be changed on a whim or to cower to public opinion but some things are just common sense. It is common sense to choose victims over perpetrators and condoms over death.

I readily admit that I do not have the biblical knowledge to pursue the Catholic stance on women in the clergy. What biblical passage is used to support the restriction of women in positions within the Catholic church that they reserve only for men?

Abortion..... Im an atheist and yet I consider it to be morally wrong however if my life is in danger, true danger and there is a choice, I like most would save my own skin. If I am pregnant by someone that raped me, Im not sure what I would do but leaving me no choice is hardly the way to handle it.

You can love your fellow man without condoning beliefs and actions of that man when they stand to harm more of your fellow man. I am all for respecting the Catholic right to worship as they see fit but every Christian, Atheist, and human being should concern themselves with what this particular brand of Christianity does to its faithful.

Christians number in my family and circle of friends to a large degree and while we do not adhere to the same spiritual beliefs, I respect what they believe as I see the way they live their lives and treat their fellow man to be positive and good. I can not afford the same respect to the Catholic faith and to those who follow the doctrines and teaching of the church that harm some of the most vulnerable people in our society.

Alison

Hello All!
I would hardly say I was brainwashed by the Catholic Church, but I can see why you would suggest that, since church tends to do that. I grew up Catholic, so it was through Catholicism that I was introduced to the Biblical God. Overall, my memories of the Church are very good -- community events, our local priest (who was a GREAT guy), innocent nights at the Catholic teen center having fun with friends, etc. I was too young to understand the politics of the Church, thus didn't care.
Wow, George! Good for you. I, like Linda, am surprised at your comments, but unlike Linda, I am pleasantly surprised. Perhaps someday you will extend this openness to people of other faith as well -- your brothers and sisters who worship Jehova, Allah, or even the Hindu god(s). And perhaps, someday, you will understand how I (and perhaps many like me) see what you call God, as love and goodness -- and in that sense, love God equally as well.

@John, that's a good one. I woke my wife up laughing. Not a bad way to start the day -- for me at least -- not necessarily for her
I can help there. The Bible is full of rhetoric showing the superiority of men -- especially in the Church. There are some passages that empower women as well, but this is what you would expect from different authors with different views on the matter. One cannot discount the societal structure of 2000 years ago, and the influence it had over the Bible.

The Catholic Church has been somewhat flexible on some issues over the years, and changing stances on certain issues while still protecting the infallibility of the papacy (go figure). So why no women priests?

From a Catholic Apologist:

Pope John Paul II clarified the issue in his 1994 encyclical Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, number 1577, it says, "The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible." The Catechism also says that no one has a right to receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders. But the magisterium has the duty to carry on the ministry of Christ in the manner that He appointed.

Where did this come from? At the Last Supper when Jesus instituted the priesthood, he made them "fathers" not "parents". That it is. This the reasoning. One stupid word. Perhaps if Jesus was into equal opportunity hiring it would be different. I think personally think Mary M would have made a great addition to the 12. Knowing Jesus' kindness to women, she probably was.

Hello all, This is a really groovy post. I love it and can relate and speak to each one. John, Love the joke. It really highlights the nature of us the use of language, and the propensity to have the odd tipple. Linda I agree with you in that I was raised a catholic, and there is a certain amount of tradition or dogma that accompanies the faith. However, my mother (then a catholic) still speaks of times when she was raising her 6 children, about a year apart, that she had experiences of ecstasies and epiphanies even though she was catholic. I was still challenged with the simple question of origins by the nuns even though I was seen to attempt to burn down the school (sorry about that chief…I was just lighting firecrackers!). Though I do not count myself as catholic, I would certainly not discount the faith experience of those in that space. Sure, you will get the cultists, the Marianites and the exclusives, but you get that everywhere, even in the local football club. It's extremely human to do so. There is a specific bent in Catholicism which places too much emphasis on Mary, but hey, it is what it is. The fact that there are differences in Christian religions does not in any way diminish the fact that God exists. I think that the fact that we have free range over the creation with free will is confirmed that there is as much diversity in religion as there is in any other aspect of the human politic or religion or science for that matter. George, I agree, whether I am a catholic, a protestant, a pentecostal, a buddist, a muslim or hindu, for the sake of this argument is irrelevant. The point is."Does God exist"? It is the easiest out for antagonists to point to differences in the opposition rather than concentrate on the failings of their own argument. Alison, Amen Bo, Good points all around, only, if God introduced Himself to me as Nigel, I would hardly call Him George would I. Jim

Fair enough Jim! Maybe we just need to be open to the idea that perhaps God introduces himself to all different people, in all walks of life, in many different ways -- or my personal belief, people introduce themselves to God.