Your God is your ultimate barrier to finding the Godhead.





The Jews, the true authority and interpreters of Eden, saw mankind’s gain of knowledge as an elevation in their struggle to understand God. Israel [as understood by Hebrews, = he strives with God]. Strive can be read as to mean to work either with or against. Jews equated God more with a source of knowledge than a source of command that must be obeyed. This is shown by archetypal Moses ignoring God’s law of divorce.

Being a Gnostic Christian, my view goes to following the Jewish view for two basic reasons. They have more authority over the O. T. than Christians and secondly, they give our creation, beginning and God a happy ending for our passage through Eden. True evil had yet to manifest itself to that point in time.

Christians on the other hand, with their view of Eden as man’s fall, cannot see a perfect heaven without evil. God fails on this issue and admits it by casting Satan out.

Christians cannot see a perfect Eden on earth without evil. God fails on this issue and admits it by casting Adam and Eve out.

In Noah’s day, God repented from his sins. He missed the mark and admits it by destroying most of mankind and animal kind with an immoral genocide. God fails on this issue as well.

Did the Jews win in their striving against God to a point where they could judge him?
I think so thanks to Moses and the divorce laws.



We cannot today know why Christianity reversed some of the Jewish thinking when embracing the O. T. and it’s God and going from man’s elevation to man’s fall.

Should Christians consider following that good Jewish example and do as other cultures have done as shown by Joseph Campbell and seek a messiah the way most Jews do?

If not, then Christians will have to learn to live in a world where their God can be accurately described like this.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Dawkins and most Jews call the bible fiction. Jews can thus get around this accurate description of God by just admitting the truth. It is all myth and metaphor. Literalist and fundamental Christians cannot and I think that over time this rather ugly God will kill Christianity.

At one time the Christian God of the gaps may have had a role to play for us but man has moved on. Christians should perhaps do the same and seek their true God.

Regards
DL

foolish talk

My friend, Greatest I am

Greetings.

Pray tell... Have you found this Godhead?

Aces Lucky wrote:
Yes. Then sought to improve on what I found.
Seeking God is a never ending search. If not, then that means that the seeker has fallen to idol worship.


The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL

Karl Knutsen wrote:
Thanks for the chastisement without correction. That shows your hate side.
Do you also spank your children without telling them why?

Foolish talk of what?

Your foolishly ignoring the more enlightened Jewish view?

Or the view of likely the best mythecist that is known?

Regards
DL

Nope. Christ/God has more authority than "Jews" have. Christian understanding of the OT comes from Christ and the views aren't as different as you claim you are basically dead wrong about your assumptions that Jews and Christians don't share OT views outside of messianic approaches to scripture which many Jews share as well.
Nope, Moses wasn't a man above sin. He was punished for his transgressions.
Oxymoron. Means nothing other than an invented philosophical view that contradicts itself.

Your post goes into rambling and incoherance... I think you just like to post youtube videos.
Who gives a crap what a random guy thinks make up your own mind.
Most Jews don't call their scripture fiction. Of course they will disagree with the "Christian Bible" it contains the new testament. Way to try to squeak that deceptive claim out like a fart in a movie theater.
Given your history you aren't interested in correction just promoting YouTube videos.
Why do you limit your scope to Genesis so often. Your understanding of Genesis is a joke. In spite of being corrected dozens of times you still misrepresent the Christian view. I've never seen you paraphrase the bible accurately and I LOVE how you decided you have the authority to tell everyone what Jews and Christians believe. Your posts are a joke and I mean that literally, the only value in your posts is entertainment there is pretty much zero knowledge or coherent thought in your comments.

Leave all the books and teachings. Look, and ask, within. When you find who and what God is, you will know. Quoting unproved scriptures is just a form of regurgitation.

@Charles (welcome too)First of all your not logical if you think people should concede scripture as false. Starting an argument by conceding your position is false is a bad way to argue. But since scripture in the NT is fallible historically. Consider the support from these well known historians supporting the Gospel records.

Pliny the Younger on Christ
www.mesacc.edu/~thoqh49081/handouts/pliny.html

Also
Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suetonius_on_Christ

and more summative...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

Then more on Christians and Christianity.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pliny_the_Younger_on_Christians

So plenty of evidence it won't convince you because nothing will most atheists could see a choir of angels with their own eyes and deny Christ.
It isn't regurgitation its a plea because we are very concerned for you.

Charles wrote:
As a Gnostic Christian, I agree 100%.
Spirituality begins inside of each of us.
Shawn is an idol worshiper of his God in a book.
He builds his golden calf one page at a time.

Regards
DL

Shawn wrote:
What attributes are spoken of here?

I am looking at something made. It is a pen.
Look at a pen and tell us what Godly attributes you see based on knowledge and not just opinion.
If based on knowledge then we will all see them.

Regards
DL

@DL
I see you had no trouble responding out of context to a comment not directed at you. Anything to queeze in your daily ad hominems. Keep banging your symbols and remain ignorant.Isn't the first lie I've seen you pull. But from a willfully ignorant person I can't expect much knowledge.
So are you affirming intelligent design?

Shawn wrote:
You say I am ignorant of facts yet will not provide them.

I affirm nothing till I see something to affirm or reject.

Regards
DL

@DL
Seems like you're a clanging gong. It isn't my responsibility to educate you. Educate yourself.

I affirm nothing till I see something to affirm or reject.

So you can see a straw bend in a glass of water... should you affirm that the straw bends simply because you see it?

You can't see air should you assume its not there?

No.

Regards
DL

Well we see knowledge in the universe...
Given you saidWhat is the source?

Shawn wrote:
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, Romans 1:20

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote: Yep. I don't see how this follows my question any better than you saying your favorite color is chair.

Shawn wrote:
I thought that that was what you were looking for by using the word source.

I guess you meant our physical senses and common sense but I thought that was a given and thought it would insult if I said it.

If not. I have no idea what you are after.

Regards
DL

Attack me if you can't attack my position... that'll prove me wrong... sounds like a quality debate tactic.

I realize I call you ignorant and I want you to understand what I'm saying clearly. While "ignorant" might be a loaded word I mean you don't research what you talk about enough for productive discussion. Moreover, I have little tolerance for liars or those who show no interest in discussion. If you aren't able to understand the opposing argument I suppose I can ignore you as one who isn't fit to respond with critical thinking. Until now, I've really just been trying to untap that potential in you but you insist in repeating your mantra.

I say I did not use a term so as not to insult and you call it an attack?

We are done.
We are not even on the same linguistic planet.

Please show good maners at least and stay away from me.


Regards
DL

@DL
I have no obligation to show you good manners. How about you earn respect and don't demand what you don't deserve or give out yourself.

Sorry I have a problem with people who constantly insult to the point where I expect it in every post. People who call call others idol worshipers when they aren't and they don't know the person, people who say the teachings of my God are immoral by misrepresenting the beliefs. People who NEVER add quality information or citation or claim a religion that is self-contradicting in its very title. People who post misinformation especially YouTube videos (which already have a comment section) and people who never discuss a topic when shown they are wrong and just change subjects. I have a bigger problem with it if they do it intentionally and constantly. Most of all people who say the bible is wrong and have never read it let alone understand it.

@Shawn . . . it's been too long <3
"Most of all people who say the bible is wrong and have never read it let alone understand it. "

And I suppose your definition of "understand it" is believe that it is the whole truth and the one true path to heaven, that Jesus died for our sins and that we are sinful creatures who need redemption? I've read parts of the bible, and while I haven't devoted all my time to "understanding it", I understand parts of it and use some christian ideology in my own beliefs.

"People who call call others idol worshipers when they aren't and they don't know the person, people who say the teachings of my God are immoral by misrepresenting the beliefs."
An idol=
an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed.

2.
Bible .
an image of a deity other than God or the deity itself.

3.
any person or thing regarded with blind admiration, adoration, or devotion: Madame Curie had been her childhood idol.

4.
a mere image or semblance of something, visible but without substance, as a phantom.

5.
a figment of the mind; fantasy.

Eg; a cross, a book, priests. The Golden Calf was surely a symbol for another god just like the cross is a symbol that represents Jesus ( or slightly more accurately his Passion, Crucifiction and Ressurection) and the Bible is something that represents God's Will. If you pray to God and use a cross, bend over and/or clasp your hands you are worshipping an idol (albeit an invisible idol that is purely in your head).

All the possible definitions result in christians worshipping idols; except for the second one which is "its not idol worship when its our God because He's special and exempt from a basic defintion."

If you truly don't worship idols, stop believing in the Bible, stop admiring your idea of a God, stop using the cross as a symbol, stop praying. Become a Gnostic Christian.

And, yes, I apologise in advance (as I know that you will say that I have no basis for what I'm saying, and that I'm misrepresenting your beliefs).

What a terrible attempt to poison the well by incorrectly refuting a rebuttal before I make it.

Your assumption would be incorrect. No I meant they have read it and understand the Christian theological perspectives including the historical context and the specific meaning in the original language as well as they are familiar with recognized published commentary. Second I see you defined idol not from its original language but from your own accord.

>>To idolatry
You define idol but conviently don't define worship. I do not worship a book, a priest/pastor, or a cross. I don't know any Christians who do not to say there aren't people who don't but clearly you just made garbage up and didn't do any research. If you wanna refute anything I say you better do your homework because these half-hearted scripture understandings and Webster definitions aren't gonna do it.
Just as a testament to the fact that you don't know anything about me or anyone else you comment on and therefore you shouldn't make assumptions, I actually don't own a cross or any jewelry never have, I never pray to a cross and I don't think Christians who do are praying to an idol.

However, God himself sends us symbols to remind us of him. God sent a bird to Noah with an olive branch. He sent a rainbow, The stars led the magi to Jesus. Using symbols as a tool is done through out scripture its quite different than praying to or worshiping an idol.