A thought came into my head the other day..."Religion wouldn't go away because God doesn't exist...it would because God DOES exist". I have often wondered if Religions, worldwide, were guidelines to live by in order for the Universe to exist until God returned (or Jesus returned). Can you imagine?? This whole time we have been holding dear to our Religions, instead of finding the silver string. I think we need to do both...stand, with conviction, when speaking about your religion but also ask the question "why are religions so similar?" Was it simply a code for all of us to get along appropriately? Learning about Linguistics and 2nd Language learning it seems that in order to learn (especially after the age of 30) you must be Child like and want to "Understand" the culture. WOW - just what if we tried living according to what was handed down to us AND get aloing with other countries. Either a Utopia world OR...God's world.

Welcome Kelly!

Religions are far more different than they are similar.
There is no single "code", there are many conflicting codes, which have been a major source of conflict since recorded history.

I am assuming you are Catholic? It seems your theology is based on Sunday masses, what priests want to tell you about religion. Read the Bible for yourself -- starting with the Old Testament. You will see very clearly that "what was handed down to us" has NOTHING to do with getting along with other countries. God's solution for those who don't worship him -- genocide.

Hi Kelly and Welcome,

I agree with you, wouldn't it be a beautiful world if we all lived, accepting each other, rather then coming into the world, growing up with a dog eat dog mentality. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all had equal freedom all over the world. Isn't it amazing how, according to what the Holy Bible says, if we all put our faith in that one God, how real the possibilities would be to have such a world.

Also, I agree with you that all religions are similar. They all focus on leading us to believe in a higher power that we need in our lives to help us through this life and prepare for the next.

Linda, to make a statement like this you need to completely IGNORE history -- specifically the history at the time of Martin Luther and the Protestant reformation and the countless religious wars that followed, under the the same GOD, and even same book! Completely ignoring, for now, the conflicts over all those who share the same God of Abraham.

"Religion wouldn't go away because God doesn't exist...it would because God DOES exist".

I would agree.

If a real God ever showed up, the reasons for religion would vanish. People would have information from the source, instead of from stories of ancient miracles.

They wouldn't require faith, but instead would have verifiable fact. And they would no longer have to depend on authority figures that take their money and molest their children, while claiming to be apostles of Jesus, or Mohamed, or whomever.

All the charlatans would whither by the way side, and injustice would be a thing of the past. If only a real god would just show up, religion would no longer be necessary.

And presuming such a god would not be a jealous tyrant, but had a high moral understanding, the "good" in the world would not have to give way to greed, abuse of power, and lies designed to keep people ignorant and superstitious.

It might in fact become like a heaven on Earth. What a nice thought indeed.

Bo,
What I said has nothing to do with ignoring History. It has to do with the will of God. When Jesus, on that cross said, " It is finished", That was the end of the conflict. There should be no more reason for wars, hatred, hunger. What the world has been going through since that time, is mans own making. The powers of the world and ungodly deeds. What I described is where God has been trying to bring us since the beginning of time. We have been fighting the enemy since Adam and Eve.

What the world (humanity) has been going through since the beginning of time is man's own making. There are no evil demons to blame, nor benevolent God to credit. Regardless, your statement is false. Faith in the Abrahamic God is not sufficient for a perfect world of peace, as demonstrated by all those who have faith in him and continue to commit crimes and start/fight in wars.

Hold on there, Bo!
How in the world could you know that, "Regardless, your statement is false." Prove it!

What part of the word, after Christ, would you say would not bring about peace?

Do you like sports Bo? Maybe I can get Tebow to join the group. Maybe it's the deliverer of the message and not the message that don't get through.

Linda, you said,

Your assertion is that "according to what the Holy Bible says, if we all put our faith in that one God...wouldn't it be a beautiful world if we all lived, accepting each other, rather then coming into the world, growing up with a dog eat dog mentality".

It is a FACT that over a billion Catholics and about a billion Protestants "put their faith in that one God, according to what the Holy Bible says." It is a FACT that tens of thousands of people were killed (in the name of God) over the Protestant split from Catholicism, PROVING that your claim how "wonderful the world would be" if we all believed in your God is absolutely false.

Source: http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_reformation.htm (excuse the atheist source -- Wikipedia is down today because of the political protest thing)

All religions are NOT the same God.....
Linda, seems to think that Jesus brought what should have been the end of wars and conflict. Jesus said himself, he'd set brother against brother....etc. When Jesus said "It is finished...." He was saying that the fulfillment of the Old Testament, the law and prophecies was finished. He gave his disciples many warnings about false prophets and the dangers in the world, He knew and foretold the world would get even worse after His death.
Bo, you said "It is a FACT that over a billion Catholics and about a billion Protestants "put their faith in that one God, according to what the Holy Bible says." I'm sorry, but they are not putting their faith in the same God as Abraham. Jesus gave the perfect example to follow, for a RELATIONSHIP with God, which is what TRUE religion is. Ask yourself, do Catholics follow Jesus? Jesus said 'call no man father on earth" or did He pray to dead saints, or His mother or wear pompous gowns or ask for collections or sell indulgences.....etc etc.. are they following Jesus, I think not, and neither would Abraham, do those things.
Luther said ...all I did is create another religion.
Buddha was asked if he was the messiah.... Buddha said "no, I am just a man, who is wide awake"
Your confusion is based on the fact that false religion exists in the world and you don't know the difference. Those with a real relationship with God, wont go out and start wars, but surely aren't perfect, the "renewing of the mind, takes time."
You don't understand the Old testament, so you don't understand why God did what He did. Instead of trying to understand, you reason.... which means you make a statement to attempt to explain or Justify what you believe or you try to explain a fact, when you have no fact in the first place "inferring' Inferring is part of science, supposedly based on a known FACT (right out of my 5th graders science book) of which you have none. That's like Darwin inferring evolution based on what he saw in the Galápagos Islands, he had no facts, fossils or evidence that the finches had been there for more than a few years, let alone, evolved....but that's just another subject...hybridizing.

Bo,
You're talking about religion, Im talking about God, the Word, Christ, the Holy Spirit. The true Christian ( Christ in us )!

We are taught by the world that 1+1=2. The world excepted that and it became a fact and no one fought against it or tried to change it. No other formula or combination can add up to 2.

We have a book that tells us about God, Christ and the receiving of the Holy Spirit. But it had to be believed by faith. The world didn't agree on the word like they did 1+1=2, because of the lack of faith. Some believed this and some believed that and as time passed, new ideas of what this and that was, had changed in meaning. Scholars came up and tried to interpret the word ( without faith) and watered it down. After centuries of this and knowledge being increased, new generations coming up, the mixture of the Jews and their beliefs, etc, etc, etc, we are where we are today.

The Cross was meant to be a way for God to come to every soul to open our eyes and become one with Him. But who believed it? Not many! Even Paul, when he was still Saul was faithful to his Jewish beliefs until Jesus appeared to him. Paul didn't have faith in the cross, but he did in God.
It's the same thing with other religions. I don't think they worship a different God. I just think they worship him differently. Like Kelly was saying about the different language's, One day it will all come together!

Hi Steve and welcome!
I think you will find that 1.2 billion Catholics disagree.

Know the difference between what? False and "real" religion? I am guessing, shooting in the dark here, but the one true real religion is the exact religion that you practice?
Perhaps not in their view, but they will fight in wars to defend their religion. Every side of every conflict thinks they are justified in defending something.

Please explain what I don't understand, and please explain to me how you do understand. Also, if you think Biblical Scholars like Bart Ehrman "don't understand the Old testament" either.

Linda, everything you said in your last post, substitute "Koran" for "Bible" and "Allah" for "Christ/Jesus/God", and perhaps you will see the problem.

Hi Steven G and welcome,
I think Im going to enjoy your being here!

Matthew 5; 17, I am come not to destroy, but to fulfill. Verse 18, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shell in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Luke 16; 16, The law and the prophets were until John: Since that time the Kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

As for Brother against brother, I've been trying to find that scripture, but between TV and the books I have strewn about, I'm having a problem concentrating . So let me answer from what I know. Lets say you come from a family who is so involved in the world that they have no concerns about God's presences in their life, yet you have devoted your life to live in His marvelous light and live a Christ like life. You can't have both. Think about it!

Bo,
There are seven churches mentioned in Rev. Jesus spoke to each one. He admonished each one according to their works.

Im sorry Steven G, I didn't add my thoughts to the scripture above. I believe Jesus fulfilled the law when he died on the cross. Christ is the image of what God wants us to be. There is no further need for laws and prophets. Christ spirit is the example of what God wants. That is why the Holy Ghost fell on believers. It isn't a done deal. Christ is just as live today as he was during biblical times.

I think it would be a shame if, at some point ,we DO find out all of the truths of the bible and we realize it was all a big misunderstanding. Let me explain...I, as a woman, admit I do not have all the answers. My brain seems to understand the NEED to understand as well as the need to communicate. It, of course, has the capacity to logically think as well. However, my natural tendencies are nurturing in nature. What if all religion was trying to do was help you understand your own brain and how it functions in order to be a part of the universe. My husband goes CRAZY when he sees me watching Lifetime...the ultimate drama station. He would much rather be watching History Channel. I think we both have something to give, however we must admit that we have an imbalance...a block, if you will, in terms of natural brain functioning. We do not know everything and the best we can do is try to understand ourselves as well as each other. We can conjure up MANY images in our mind as far as who god is. But if we go to god with an open heart and mind I have a feeling we'll find out a lot about what we need to do to rebalance ourselves. This is a concept that I think is hard to imagine...you'll actually have to do it. How do you go to god? I think through creative writings. How do you know if your thoughts come from god? Well, I think when you are in the right frame of mind (which is a mind that does not feel guilt, envy, anger, tension of any kind) then God WILL speak to you via your writings. Thoughts?

Kelly wrote

Kelly,

I am assuming here you are talking about the differences between the male and female brains and how we need to become more alike in our thought processes (rebalance). Is that true?
I do not understand why you think that there is a block in your natural brain function because you like to watch different TV shows then your husband.
Are you saying God made males and females alike in their brain functions? What do you mean by "natural brain functioning"?


So if you write without feelings of "guilt, envy, anger, tension of any kind", " then God WILL speak to you via your writings" and it is not just your calm, quiet mind coming up with these thoughts? How did you come to that conclussion?

To me what you describe are basic differences of the sexes, nothing to worry about or change. We should all be aware of the differences and actually celebrate them.

Bo, nice to talk to you, now you said
I think you will find that 1.2 billion Catholics disagree.
O course they don't, who would walk in a way and say it wrong? Now why do I say it's wrong... Jesus said "I am the way" "Pick up your cross and follow me" Peter said but these people are doing this... or that.. (paraphrase) and Jesus said " don't worry about them, follow me" There are numerous verses of how Jesus is the example to follow. Sorry I'm not one to memorize verses and don't have time to look them up here. If Jesus is the example, then there is less confusion, isn't there? When PEOPLE come in with their ways, confusion reigns. One reads the Bible that says God doesn't like homosexuality, and churches say it's ok..... there's confusion. (God loves the person, but not the act and doesn't want it continued) example when Jesus talked to the lady married many times and now living with a guy.....he said "go and sin no more" it's wasn't ok to continue in sin.
Do I believe I'm in the true way, yes. Why, because Jesus was the example and I'm trying to follow it. Sometimes I don't do so well. Are there false religions in the world, yes or Jesus was lying when he said "beware of false prophets, because they are ravenous wolves in sheeps clothing." (not a word for word quote, but if you know the Bible, you know the verse)
Do we pray to dead saints, no, Jesus came, so "we can boldly come unto the throne of grace" so why pray to some dead guy. King Saul got in a lot of trouble doing that with Samuel the prophet. Gods people built statues before, Moses threw the 1st set of 10 commandments and destroyed them.(their physical lives ended) There are consequences to our actions, even an atheist knows that.
I don't know who Bart Ehrman is, and just because he wrote a book, doesn't mean he is right. Saul in the new testament, who became Paul was extremely educated and said he considered it nothing compared to knowing Christ. I also went to Bible college, so what. I didn't start knowing, till I started walking in His shoes.... and I see next to no value, in any, of what I learned in college.
I'm running out of time But as far as the Old Testament is concerned, one has to look at what God does, this way. He's dealing with a sinful world, He has chosen a certain small group (Jews) to be the example of what happens when people follow Him and when they don't. We chose to have rulers over us....politicians...how do you like it. We demanded laws... etc think about this a little before you respond.

Bo, I'm enjoying the going back and forth between you and Linda. About how the world would or wouldn't be a better place if people followed what God said in the Bible. Sorry, your both talking about if people had faith in what God said, and that's the thing. As it says in the Bible "faith without works is dead" not only do they have to believe, but do.
The Catholics and Protestants squabble because neither follow Jesus's example. They created some big organization, and wont simply follow Jesus, so they are following MAN. You might as well say atheist, either way, it's just man's reasoning. We use a lousy 3 to 5% of our brains and think we have it all figured out. That's why Jesus came to be our example.
How do you think a person with a low IQ can get into Heaven, if they have to figure it all out. They can't. If they had to read that book by Bart Ehrman, they would just give up. The WAY is supposed to be so simple a child can understand. Follow Jesus.
Show Love, do unto others as you would have them do to you....etc Love God. Anything else is not following God.
Those people fighting in wars and against other religions aren't following God.
I know your going to bring up the Old Testament now, so again. God was leading His chosen thru the sinful world and those things had to happen. Did God WANT to kill those people, no "God is not willing that ANY should parish." Yes God knew what those people would do, but there were prophecies that also had to be fulfilled, so YOU could see.
Atheist love to say, Jesus fulfilled prophecy on purpose.... that's right, He did, some. Others, like being born in Bethlehem,
born of the lineage of David, living in Egypt, living in Nazareth, teaching the Sanhedrin as a child etc etc Being born when the wise men said he would, never said they were Jews, or Hebrew, being wrapped in swaddling clothes, laying in a manger.... all prophecies from hundred and thousands of years BEFORE He was born.
As far a Linda saying that we should be accepting each other, I say it would be great IF they were following what Jesus set as an example.....otherwise, no way. I'm not going to accept people molesting kids, drunks and drug addicts wrecking others live.....Even though Jesus fulfilled the Law, the way people should act, is still the same, just in love, instead of the letter of the law.

I can't really argue for the Catholic faith, if I could I would still be Catholic But my (extended) family is Catholic, as is my best friend.

Of all the Catholics I do know, they really believe they are following Jesus as well. Perhaps Jesus does not care about the technicalities of how exactly to follow him, but what is in the hearts of those who do (Linda, you have to give me a point for that one!)

Jesus wasn't making a statement of fact, just issuing a warning. But you will also find that virtually every modern-day cult leader "warns" about other false prophets, in attempt to bolster their own credibility. I am not saying this means Jesus was not the real deal, just that his warning is not evidence for this authenticity.

You are absolutely correct. I just threw his name out there because he is one of the most respected Biblical academic scholars, and my views are similar to his. So if you think he "does not understand" the OT, then the fact that you think I don't understand the OT does not mean anything to me -- it actually would be a compliment, and I wouldn't feel the need to defend my knowledge.

Actually, that is a myth. It was started about 100 years ago and it grew from there. Modern science and neurobiology tells us we use 100% of our brains, or close to it. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10%25_of_brain_myth
You will find many very faithful people on this board with higher IQs than myself (or at least you can tell from their posts that they are very well-educated). Faith is not an excuse for ignorance.

Through faith, you can believe that. But with knowledge of the Bible you will see that there are countless other passages that tell a different story: "I will take vengeance on my adversaries and repay those who hate me. I will make my arrows drunk with blood, while my sword devours flesh..." (Deut 32:41-42). Not quite the God you are following, is it?

Of course I don't believe we live in a sinless world, I'd have to be an idiot.
And where do you get that I think "faith is an excuse for ignorance" everyone has faith, you just don't put yours in God.
The 3 to 5% of the brain thing, maybe I should have said POTENTIAL does that make you happy.
The verses from Deut. 32:41-42, I don't understand why God says those things and I wouldn't pretend to know. If I have understanding later, I'll let you know. But I choose to believe Jesus, when He says that God is like a loving father. But you must have missed the part where God was talking to those who CHOSE to be His adversary and CHOSE to HATE Him.
I guess this is where God's purpose for creation comes in...... God was creating essentially a family, of those He created to be Like HIM. Along with that came free choice, which He has, so we also have it. He didn't want a bunch of people who couldn't get along....
As far as your rulers go, they are the ones who start all the wars.....wouldn't you agree? Or have you started one or someone you know......no some leader did, because of ego, or greed or jealousy or whatever. I'm glad you like umm, because we have a ruler here in the US that's spending us into poverty. But let's not go there...
About your family and the Catholics, the people who followed Jim Jones thought they were following Godly people, were they? Jesus said "you will know them buy their fruit" he also said "good water and bad water can't come from the same well" Yes, some people would call the belief a cult..... but there again, Jesus was considered a cult leader too. So I guess I'm in good company. All the bad junk you here in the news about churches, doesn't happen in our way, and there are over a million in our way.... all just following Christ, doing as he did and said. And you and mister Ehrman never new they even existed.... as it says 'be in the world, but not of it."
We're not put here to figure things out, but to learn, obey and grow into people who can get along and love each other in heaven..... anyone else wouldn't be happy there.
I hope you realize, I'm enjoying talking to you, and not judging you. It helps me grow, to be challenged, and I will give thought to the Deut. 32 thing.

Not quite. Biblical faith is very different than accepting first principle or axioms, which is what I am guessing your are calling "faith". Ask yourself if your faith really is in "God", or a really old book that told you what God you should have faith in.

If you say that not everyone always reaches their full potential, I am good with that.

I did miss that part, I would appreciate if you can point that part to me. The part I know is the part where people just don't know this god, or don't believe he exists. I know of no character in the Bible who knows God and hates him -- not even Satan. But I could be wrong.

Certainly in the Bible this was the case. But anyone can start a war with enough people willing to fight for a cause... look at Bin Laden. This doesn't mean all leaders are evil. There have been many more leaders in history that did not start a war than that did. I am glad we the people to lead, and even more glad we have the freedom to elect them.

Thank you Steven. Is it good to have you have to here